Complete Unedited Interview with YU Commentator

1. How do you justify this activity for your senior prank in light of the recent, tragic accident of David Gertler who was severely injured falling from
Schottenstein Hall last year in a failed rappelling stunt?

First of all, we began planning and training for the rappels months before the accident. By the time of the fall, we had already rappelled Rubin, Morgenstern, and Strenger Halls. David was in no way associated with us, nor did he have any knowledge of our rappelling. In fact, when people commented on the video relating it to David’s accident, he posted in defense of us “First off: The people in the video are unaffiliated in any way with the crazy kid who broke his neck.” I think that it is also inaccurate to refer to his fall as a rappelling stunt. He had no rappelling equipment or training. We were however concerned that by posting the video we would dredge up bad memories for David, and bring the story back into the news, so we contacted him and were informed that he had no objections to the video being posted and in fact enjoyed it immensely.

2. How was your group able to rappel down Belfer Hall in broad daylight? Was it really enough to disguise as construction workers or were there other factors
involved?

Lance: I think that most people are familiar with Edgar Allan Poe’s story of The Purloined Letter, featuring the detective Auguste Dupin. In the story the detective is tasked with finding a compromising letter which is being used to blackmail the Queen. The police determine what room the letter is in and conduct an intensive search, checking behind the wallpaper, under the carpets, and using microscopes to examine the furniture for hollowed out hiding spaces. Of course, Dupin finds the letter sitting in plain sight in a cheap card rack. The phrase “a purloined letter” has come to mean the hiding of something in plain view. We rappelled all of the other buildings at night because when you’re filming up eight stories you don’t need that much light to get decent footage, however, when we’re talking about twenty plus stories, filming at night just won’t work. It was for this reason that we first started discussing the idea of rappelling Belfer Hall during the day. As we discussed it the sheer daring and panache of such an attempt became reason enough. We determined that in order to make it truly memorable we needed to rappel off of the side of Belfer Hall that faces Amsterdam Avenue (the busiest street on campus), in the middle of the day, during the school year. There was no doubt that people were going to see us, whether from inside the windows that we were rappelling past or from the street, so the question became how could we prevent them from alerting security. The answer hit me one day as I was walking past the construction on the library. People were walking by constantly and not one of them looked up at the construction workers dangling overhead. They had become an integral and accepted part of the landscape. At that moment I knew that no one would raise an eyebrow at yet another construction worker hanging off of a rope.

3. How did the group bypass the various exit alarms in Belfer Hall?

I wish that I could claim that we brilliantly circumvented the high-tech alarm system through a combination of technological wizardry and determination, but the truth is far less interesting. At the time of the rappel, there were no alarms on the doors leading to the roof of Belfer. I’m sure that’s been changed by now. As for the exit alarms on some of the other buildings’ roofs, those did require technological wizardry and determination. It was not unusual for us to spend several weeks studying an alarm component and figuring out a way to get around it. We would scour the internet for wiring diagrams of the system, buy copies of the alarms and locks and take them apart in order to figure out where the weak point was. We had a very unique group of guys with different areas of expertise, and it never took too long before we figured out how to get through it. One of the team members, Lewis, plans on one day starting a business which will break into clients’ homes and businesses in order to expose security weaknesses, and then strengthen them, a la the movie Sneakers. It goes without saying that whenever we had finished the rappels we replaced everything exactly as we had found it, in perfect working order.

4. What do you think of Yeshiva President Richard M. Joel's new policy of
expulsion without possibility for readmittance as punishment for dangerous stunts such as rappelling down university buildings? Do you understand the
Administration’s concerns for students’ safety?

We very much understand the administration’s concern for students’ safety and by extension President Joel’s new policy. They are tasked with keeping their students safe and clearly this is an appropriate response. However, we’d like to make a few points. First, YU’s concern for student safety should also be evident in other areas. More students have been injured in attacks by local thugs than have been harmed through pranks such as this. Many yeshiva families are concerned about the lack of a serious YU response to the threat of the local criminal element. Does YU react as strongly when security stands by and lets a student be beaten up? On a lesser note, there are such things as safe rappels, but there’s no such thing as a safe cigarette. Are students allowed to smoke on campus? Does drug usage result in immediate expulsion without possibility for readmittance? I ask, because I don’t know. But don’t you think it a bit of a mistake for YU to go to all this trouble to advertise that all people who now try to rappel off of Belfer will be expelled, but not to do the same thing for drug usage which is far more prevalent on campus? Would you rather students get high on Belfer or high on marijuana? I realize it is not an either-or situation, and that students could refrain from both, but it seems that YU’s priorities are a bit askew. Secondly, there is a rich tradition of school pranks at universities across the country. Whether it was renowned physicist and mathematician John von Neumann’s rappel down Cleveland Tower at Princeton, MIT’s infamous “hacks, or Caltech’s well known pranks, universities tend to turn a blind eye to pranks that are both clever and harmless. In fact, these schools take a certain pride in the fact that they attract these sorts of students, students who are smart, and possessing a certain daring, passion for life, and the capacity to pull off ingenious pranks safely and successfully. If YU is serious about being taken seriously as a university, perhaps it’s time to adopt more than just a four year program from other schools. Lastly, for those students looking for a thrill at YU there really is no legal outlet. We tried going to a rock climbing wall in midtown for a little while, but due to our frequent 12+ hour days we just weren’t able to keep it up. For those students who don’t find basketball or swimming suitably exciting there’s not much to do. Perhaps YU could consider providing their students some entertainment other than flat screen TV’s and arcade games. What about a rock climbing wall? A boxing ring? Boat rentals on the Hudson?

5. When exactly did your group rappel down Belfer? Why did you decide to
release the video online now? Any particular significance to the timing?

The Belfer rappel took place in the beginning of May. The video release date was the result of several factors, including the amount of time it took to edit the video, the fact that all those involved were scattered across several different countries, and the beginning of the school year.

6. What statement were you trying to make by broadcasting these stunts over
the Internet?

The purpose of the rappels was twofold. First of all, we intended this to be a wakeup call to our fellow students, and Jewish students across the country, to get outside, step away from their computers and television sets, and live life. Being frum in no way excludes being adventurous. (As you can see in question 7, several of the rappellers were at the time in MYP.) The rappelling adventure was to protest the lethargy, lack of physical fitness, and general indifference to living life passionately which are sadly so common in our Jewish schools across the country. The second purpose of the rappels, was to gain publicity for our next adventure. We are currently planning an expedition, set for September 2008, to sail a roughly 35 foot sailboat to Australia. We intend to broadcast weekly videos by satellite internet to Jewish schools around the country, interested in showing the ten or fifteen minute video to their students. The purpose of this expedition and the videos is to drive home the same point made with the rappelling videos, that you can be both a frum Jew and a passionate lover of life and adventurer. The videos will each include: a short lesson on hashkafa or halachah relating to sailing, the location that we are in, or some event that has transpired; updates on the trip, where we are geographically, what we’ve seen, etc.; and instruction on skills ranging from sailing to scuba diving to catching and cleaning fish to survival at sea. We hope to fund the trip with the help of generous sponsors who support our goal of bringing life and passion back into Judaism. In fact, we’d like to take this opportunity to invite the Center for the Jewish Future to partner with us in this exciting endeavor. Interested potential sponsors, partners, schools, or interviewers can contact us at shysma@gmail.com. We are in the process of incorporating a non-profit. The name of the non-profit will be SHYSMA (pronounced shy-z-muh). This is the acronym for “Shimshon, Have You Seen My Alps.” In the popular tale told about Rav Shimshon Raphael Hirsch, he explains that the reason he is taking off time to travel and see the world is to prepare himself for the question that will undoubtedly be posed to him at the end of his life by HaKadosh Baruch Hu, “Shimshon, have you seen my alps?” The students involved believe that it is this zest for life and adventure that has been lost by the Jewish community, and through their videos they hope to revitalize the next generation of Jewish students and reignite this passion for appreciating God’s world. In addition, they believe that this is crucial to preventing the flow of Jewish youth going off the derech, by demonstrating that there are many different paths that individuals can take while still remaining religious. Halacha is both incredibly detailed, and yet incredibly accommodating of different hashkafot. Being religious doesn’t mean being a cookie-cutter.

7. While your group attended Yeshiva, which morning and college programs did you attend? Do you feel like your group fit into the general student body on the
Wilf Campus or were you outsiders?

The group consisted of individuals in MYP, BMP, and IBC. Some of us were in YC and some were in Sy Syms. In fact, we believe that our strength was the direct result of our diversity, and we hold this example up to the YU student community as proof that there is more that binds us together than separates us. It is our wish that our group serve as an example of the unity on campus between students in different programs and from different backgrounds, as opposed to the antagonism that one seems to hear so much about. As for whether we were outsiders…our imaginary friends didn’t think so. Come on, honestly, what do you expect us to say? We fit in as well as any people who don’t fit the cookie cutter mold fit in. Luckily, YU has people of every type and variety and we made many close friends at school, including people in the rappelling group who met at school. We found that in general, the student body was more than happy to pitch in with our unconventional ideas, as they found them to be unique and excitingly different from the usual NYC methods of entertainment. We led trips through abandoned subways, went skydiving, took a group to swim in the Atlantic Ocean on January 1st with the Coney Island Polar Bear Club, and explored Indian burial caves in Inwood Park. We did however have difficulty finding Stern girls who shared our enthusiasm for adventure. I’m sure they are out there, but all those that we met were pretty conventional. We are all single now, but at the time some of our girlfriends were depressingly apathetic about our adventures and wanted nothing to do with them…which in retrospect should have been a tip off that we hadn’t found our besherts just yet. :)

8. Were any other ideas considered before settling on rappelling? If so, why did
your group select this stunt?

Lance: Rappelling off of Belfer has always been a dream of mine. It occurred to me that it would be the perfect prank when I first arrived at YU. However, it wasn’t until my senior year that I found a group of guys capable enough, whom I felt comfortable trusting my life to. Why rappelling? Hemingway said, “There are only three real sports: bull-fighting, car racing and mountain climbing. All the others are mere games.” We were short on bulls in the Washington Heights area, the locals had a monopoly on car-racing, and there weren’t any mountains (the only thing high about Washington Heights is 85% of the inhabitants), so we coped the best that we could and went building climbing instead.

9. How did you practice rappelling before actually attempting to scale down
Yeshiva’s buildings? How long have the members of your group been rappelling
down buildings?

The members of the group all had prior rappelling experience. The levels of experience ranged from belonging to a Search and Rescue unit to military training to camp ropes course experience. Before we attempted to rappel any buildings we first devoted several weeks to training on a one story drop. We practiced knots until we could tie them in the dark; simulated accidents; performed rescues; rappelled upside-down, right-side-up and every which way in between; practiced fireman belays; prepared for equipment malfunctions and numerous other potential scenarios. Once we were fully competent at rappelling we began planning the other details of the rappels: evading security (handled by Kyle), dealing with locks and alarms, video angles, etc. It was not unusual for us to have several two-hour long meetings where we drew diagrams and wrote up elaborate plans of action so that every person knew exactly what their job was. We included one of these planning sessions in the YouTube video to demonstrate that these were intricately planned rappels and that we weren’t taking the dangers lightly at all. During the actual rappels we all stayed in touch by way of 2-way radios and earpieces, so that everyone was aware what was happening.

10. Were members of your group involved in specific groups at Yeshiva like the
unofficial fraternity, AEPI or any other clubs? Did you live in the dormitories, IHP
or off-campus housing?

We were not involved with any of the fraternities. We felt that suspending ourselves over a two hundred-fifty foot drop was a better way to feel secure in our masculinity than to get drunk and bump chests with each other. Several of the group members, however, ran clubs. We were also, of course, all involved in a pretty exclusive club called Over-the-Edge, a group geared towards creating excitement and adventure in a community where such aspects of life were shunned due the intense curriculum and the mentality that adventure is not the frum way. Group members lived both in the dormitories and in IHP apartments.

11. If other students were to try to duplicate your stunts and something
disastrous were to happen to them, would your group feel any responsibility?

We seem to be living in an age when no one is capable of taking responsibility for their actions. Whether it means blaming your parents, your teachers, video games, music lyrics, or McDonald’s for making their coffee too hot, people seem incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions. As Jews we believe that God gave every one of us Bechirah Chofshis, freedom of choice. It’s very comforting to think otherwise, which reduces us to the same level as an animal. Dogs don’t feel guilty for messing up the living room rug; it would be absurd to hold a dog accountable for barking at a stranger, it is its nature. Humans who blame their actions on external stimuli are in effect declaring that they had no free choice and that they are no better than animals. From my time in YU, my impression of my fellow students and the entire curriculum is one of recognition that human beings were given free choice by God and that our actions are our responsibility. I also felt that my fellow students were of a sufficient level of intelligence to make their own judgment calls, and not the type to mindlessly imitate others’ behavior. If that were not the case, seeing as YU is situated in Washington Heights, the administration would have far more to worry about than some students imitating the rappel, we would have our very own YU pimps and drug dealers. Also, where does the buck stop? Couldn’t we blame YU security for not stopping us, the authors of rappelling books that we consulted, the manufacturers of the rappelling equipment, movies of rappels that no doubt inspired us, the long hours of class which drove us to find some sense of adventure? Is this the message that we wish to convey to the next generation? Do we want children whose response to anything and everything will be “I couldn’t help it” or “But Billy did it”? Do you think that contributes to a healthy society? I know that my children will be raised to recognize that they are responsible for their own actions, and whether or not little Billy down the street uses inappropriate language, skips minyan, or doesn’t treat his mother with respect, such behavior will not be acceptable in my household, and they will be held responsible for it. In the parashah of Bereishit, that we will soon be reading, we see that Adam HaRishon’s response to Hashem’s accusation is “Hi Natnah Li Min Ha’etz V’ochel”, essentially “She made me do it.” This excuse doesn’t cut it in Gan Eden, and we don’t believe that it should cut it in Yeshiva University either. Lastly, we put in months of training and preparing and ensuring the safety of our rappels before attempting them; should someone try to copy us without taking the same precautions and safeguards I would have to question whether he was mature enough to be in college in the first place.

12. Did any administrators or faculty know about the stunts before it was
broadcasted online?

Not to the best of our knowledge.

13. Did the members of your group attend a yeshiva in Israel? If so, where?

All of the group members attended mainstream yeshivot in Israel. Three of us attended the same yeshiva, and one attended an Israeli yeshiva before serving in the IDF.

14. Do you have any regrets about illegally rappelling down Yeshiva property or
broadcasting the video on YouTube?

No, we don’t. We planned and executed a legendary stunt with complete safety to ourselves, those around us, and without causing any damage to school property. Our motivations were altruistic (as mentioned in question 6) and in no way spiteful towards YU, to which we all owe a debt of gratitude for an incredible education and the best three years of our lives. The feedback that we have gotten from the video is very gratifying. With well over six thousand views total, clearly this video struck a nerve. Lewis: “It is proof that Jews may actually have an interest in adventure, something I am quite relieved to see verified. Even if it is just an interest, it is a start.”

15. Do the members of your group consider themselves Observant Jews?

We all consider ourselves to be halachically Observant Jews. We don’t identify ourselves as ‘frum’, mainly because we don’t have a clue what the term means and couldn’t find it mentioned anywhere in Shulchan Aruch. If any readers could provide us some marei mekomot we’d appreciate it. We have accepted the fact that we will never be accepted by the yeshivish or chareidi worlds irrelevant of our level of learning (the fact that one of us rides a motorcycle to minyan every morning and another served in the Israeli army in a non-hesder unit doesn’t exactly help).

16. Do any of you use alcohol or drugs?

We prefer natural highs such as rappelling off of 250 foot buildings, skydiving, scuba diving, and pounding a blatt of gemara. J In all seriousness though, not a single member of the team has ever touched narcotics, nor do any of us get drunk. We didn’t participate in the bar or club scenes in New York which is how we had the free time to pursue other extra-curricular activities. We find drinking boring. It’s a way to artificially and chemically inject some excitement and adrenaline into your life. How about getting out into the real world and doing it naturally instead.

17. Can you describe in detail the group’s preparation on the day you rappelled
down Belfer?

Belfer was really a case of all of the circumstances just falling into place beautifully. We were never certain what day we would end up doing the Belfer rappel as several conditions had to first be met: we needed access to a construction worker’s hardhat and clothing, we needed a strong anchor on the roof of Belfer to attach the rope to, we needed decent weather, and lastly we needed to iron out a few last minute difficulties. These difficulties included the dangers of a rappel that long and the question of where the rappel would be filmed from. Clearly, we couldn’t have someone standing on the street with a video camera aimed up at the rappeller otherwise it would draw attention to the rappel. To solve this problem, our cameraman Lewis, who is also extensively trained in rappelling in case a rescue is needed, and who seemingly is half monkey, climbed a two story building across Amsterdam Avenue to film from the roof. A long rappel introduces some new dangers, most importantly the added weight of the rope. Two hundred fifty feet of rope weighs about fourteen pounds. When you have that much weight pulling down on the end of your rope you get a belay effect whereby your rappel is stopped. The real danger is that if you compensate by reducing the friction when you begin the rappel, as you descend the weight of the rope beneath you decreases as does the arresting effect and you can quickly speed up out of control and end up as a stain on the sidewalk. In order to deal with this effect we decided to use a rappel device known as the rack, as opposed to the Black Diamond ATC that we used for the other rappels. This device enables you to easily change the amount of friction that you are applying to the rope. The idea is to have a little friction at the top, and then as the weight of the rope beneath you decreases increase the friction to compensate and slow yourself down. Another concern with the Black Diamond ATC is that when you are going that fast down that much rope the metal device heats up to the point where it is capable of literally melting through the rope. Because of this, the rappeller needs to be incredibly careful and skillful at keeping his speed constant and not stopping. Stopping also results in what’s known as shock loading the system. One 200 lb. person coming to an abrupt stop on a rappelling rope exerts a 1,200 pound force on the rope and anchors. By way of contrast, in a proper rappel the full weight of the rappeller is never entirely placed on the rope as he’s falling. Anyway, on the day that all of the circumstances were ideal (we found a construction man’s hardhat and clothing lying around, window washers had left a strong anchor system on the roof of Belfer, and it was beautiful weather without too much wind…at least on the ground) we didn’t feel that we had become experts with the rappelling rack, at least not to the point that we would bet our lives on it. Because of this, we determined that we would test the effect of such a long rappel on the Black Diamond ATC, which we were incredibly proficient with, and if it performed well we would use it for the Belfer rappel, if not, we would scratch the plan, which likely meant that we would not be able to do it again as circumstances were unlikely to line up as perfectly again. To test the ATC we did a one story rappel with a fifteen pound weight suspended from the rope. This simulated having 250 feet of rope hanging beneath us. We discovered that if we fed the rope through the device we were able to rappel. It would be a bit jerky and slow for the first hundred feet, but after that it would smooth out into a perfect rappel. The rappeller just needed to make absolutely certain that the rappel was as smooth as possible and that he kept his speed down and never stopped or shock loaded the anchor. After Lewis climbed to the top of the building across the street and started filming, the rest of us grabbed the construction hard hat and headed to the roof of Belfer with all of our gear. Interestingly enough, there wasn’t even a No Trespassing sign on the exit door to the roof. We had taken a look at the structural plans of Belfer months earlier, determined that the building was 235 feet tall, and acquired a 250 foot rope. It came as quite a surprise to us when after lowering the rope we found that it was hovering about four feet off the ground. We realized that Belfer was in fact well over 250 feet. In order to get around this problem, the rappeller landed on the railing of a window washing station that was sitting on the sidewalk. The wind was pretty strong on the roof which caused some problems with the rope. Every time that we lowered it, it kept getting tangled in the lines that the window washers had left. Eventually, Bruce figured out a way to keep it separate. When the rope was prepared Bruce headed to the bottom and putting his weight on it bounced up and down a few times. The rest of us observed from the top that the anchor wasn’t budging and that our backup remained secure. It was about four in the afternoon. At this point, after putting on his harness and getting it checked by his safety buddy, the rappeller attached to the rope and swung out, two hundred and fifty feet above Amsterdam Ave. “It was pretty nerve-wracking until I committed to it and swung out, but at that point my training just took over and I was focused on making it a safe and in-control rappel, and on enjoying it. If you’re not living on the edge, you’re taking up too much room.” For the first seventy-five feet or so it was pretty rough-going. He had to feed the rope through the device because of the rope weight issue, while ensuring that he was rappelling smoothly without shockloading the anchor. At about the fifteenth floor he passed a friend of his in the window on the phone who looked out in shock at seeing someone dangling from a rope that high but didn’t even recognize him due no doubt to the strange circumstances. As the weight of the rope beneath him decreased the rappel became noticeably faster and all of his focus was required in maintaining a smooth and constant speed. As he neared the bottom he swung out and landed lightly on the rail of the window washing cart, conveniently located right beneath him, just as he ran out of rope. He disconnected from the rope, radioed the members of the team still on the roof to pull it up, walked right by a DHL delivery man who stared at him and then up to the top of Belfer then back at him then at the top of Belfer in confusion, waved his hardhat at the cameraman and then headed off to meet the rest of the team at a prearranged meeting point.